Cherubfish Pygmy Angels in QT

Discussion in 'Fish Diseases - Diagnosis & Treatment' started by clsanchez77, Mar 26, 2018.

  1. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    Well, this is my 4th attempt to QT a set of Atlantic Cherubfish pygmy angels for my reef tank. Because of past failures, I have changed things up.

    Source: My first attempt was diver collected in the Florida Keys and they died of ammonia poisoning (my fault). I then had two attempts from Aquatic Specialties where the fish were obtained from Sustainable Aquatics. After two failures, I have confirmed with others that the pygmy angels from SA just do not do very well. Captive breeding is still in its infancy for many fish and much work needs to be done. These fellows are from Haiti and were imported through Aquatic Sealife. While 1 died in the store, these appear to be in good health. The store ran them through QT including PraziPro (single treatment), methylene blue and Seachem Cupramine (0.5 mg/l for two weeks). The total QT period was 3 weeks.

    Mating Setup: This time, I am starting with 2 instead of 3. I suspect that the ritual fighting to establish the dominant pair was killing off the third wheel (in nature, there is enough space...in a 20 gal QT there is not). I believe the two "winners" were damaged as a result and this contributed to their demise in QT. My plan was to establish a harem but I am convinced a bigger QT would be required to accomplish that. I think my success will be more probably with just a pair.

    Tank Transfer Method. My plan here is to use TTM instead of copper. The angels are in QT now as of Sunday evening. I will dose Prazi Pro tonight and after 3 days move them to a second tank. Both tanks were matured over the past two months and I have an additional seed sponge in my DT for the first rotation. I am undecided on a second round of Prazi since the store reports they already had one. I may do so on the 3rd tank.

    Feeding. I am feeding a blend of Reef Nutrition foods supplemented with EcoSystem Reef Solution. The fish both took immediately to feeding.

    In my initial observation, there was no fighting between the fish at all. They took together right away. One does take shelter inside my PVC cave while the other takes shelter on the outside. I plan to add a PVC elbow to see if the other will retreat separately or if he (gender assumed :D) is guarding.

    Since I will be doing TTM, I plan to feed them in multiple feedings per day. Perhaps a drop of liquid food hourly when I am home and awake. Ammonia will not be a concern with the TTM and the frequent feedings should help them grow a little quicker. Another concern of mine that perhaps worked against my previous attempts.

    Photo taken at feeding time this morning.

    Cherubfish QT Mar 2018.jpg


    Food recipe is Reef Nutrition Mysis-Feast (5ml), Arcti-Feast (15ml), Beta Brine (20ml), Real Ocean Eggs (15 ml), Tigger Feast (15 ml) & Roti-Feast (5ml) fortified with 15ml of Reef Solution. They will receive about 1 ml of food daily spread out hourly during morning and evening hours (perhaps 3 feedings each).

    From photo, tank is quite "mature" lol.
     
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  2. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Administrator LARC Supporter

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    Why not just use CP? (I thought I remember you telling me you got some.)
     
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  3. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    My concern with the angels is keeping them in QT long enough for the CP due to ammonia build up. My experience with them is that they are so sensitive to it, the 20 gallon tank just can process it fast enough. I have lost 3 batches, so I figured I would go TTM on this one. I will save the CP for when I restock on blue chromis again, probably next year.
     
  4. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    My first tank transfer was completed yesterday. The first QT tank was broken down, disinfected with chlorine and sun-dried like a set of tomatoes. The chlorine solution I used was an exact proportion of about two splashes of bleach into a bucket filled somewhere less than half-way. Not too little, but not too much!

    IMG_3972.jpg

    I cannot underestimate the value of good help these days!

    Here are the two little angels in their new digs! The two are settled in with no fighting that I have seen and resumed feeding right a way. So far so good. Next tanks transfer will be Tuesday night. I am setting the tank up now, will get the Stability going and I have the seen sponge in my sump for 30 days. So far, no signs of anything!


    IMG_3971.jpg

    @Humblefish, how many transfers do I need to do in your opinion? I forgot to add more sponges, but I suppose I could sacrifice some ceramic bio media since I am not using medication.
     
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  5. Kujo

    Kujo Cleaner Shrimp

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    How cute the little helper already learning about the aquariums.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
     
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  6. Kujo

    Kujo Cleaner Shrimp

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  7. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    Thanks for that link. So looks like Saturday is my "Day 1" since I went 7 days in the first tank to make sure I had proper mating and feeding. I also hit both doses on Prazi in the first tank.
     
  8. Kujo

    Kujo Cleaner Shrimp

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    Yeah I did this method a while back. I learned a few things. One thing I would say is try and only use PVC pipe or basic things in the tank with not alot of porous surface so that when you clean the tank on it's dry days it can fully dry out. Not sure if that's what your doing. Just read sponge and ceramic bio media wasn't sure. And I would use a basic filtration system as well. The less complex the less parts to stay wet. Why risk the whole process.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
     
  9. Kujo

    Kujo Cleaner Shrimp

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    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
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  10. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Administrator LARC Supporter

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    If you follow this transfer schedule, it will eliminate ich from the fish if present:
    • Day 1 - Fish is placed in initial QT.
    • Day 4 - Roughly 72 hours later transfer the fish to new tank. The time of day you do the transfer is unimportant, but never exceed 72 hours from the last transfer. The temperature and SG of the new tank should match the old one perfectly, so you can just catch & release (no acclimation). Transfer as little water as possible with the fish.
    • Day 7 - Repeat.
    • Day 10 - Repeat.
    • Day 13 - Repeat and done (fish should now be ich free).
     
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  11. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    The sponge is seeded in my DT sump to provide the mature bio-surface. I only use PVC. I have a PVC cave and PVC fittings and I alternate them with each setup to keep everything sterile. No porous decorations despite the "appearance" in my first photo above. The ceramic media is an excellent bio-filter so long as you do NOT need to provide any medications. I am attempting to do this with no medications because my past experience with this specific fish is they are just too sensitive.
     
  12. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    Update from this morning. They are doing very well. I have never had a set of angels make it this far in QT. IMG_4018.jpg

    Note my DIY Chaeto Reactor lol. I grabbed a handful from the main tank fuge. Given my past issues with these fish, I am thinking outside the box on the QT! Again, the key here is I am not using any medications.
     
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  13. smileyjoe

    smileyjoe Kole Tang POTM Winner

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  14. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    Thanks, doing great! Just did my last tank transfer. They will be in the display soon! They eat like hogs, but I may hold them in QT until they get a little more meat on them. Im just concerned the hawkfish may put them down.
     
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