Large Hydroid or Small Basket Star

Discussion in 'What the...?' started by clsanchez77, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    One of my original hitchhikers. I originally thought it was a basketstar. He has definitely grown, perhaps doubled in size over the course of a year. I have never seen the body, only the arms.

    [​IMG]Hydroid? by Christopher Sanchez, on Flickr
     
  2. CenlaReefer

    CenlaReefer Flasher Wrasse LARC Supporter

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    Chris, I did some google searching. Some branching hydroids have patterns much like ferns. Others have patterns much like the branching bronchi from one's lungs. That could be what you have. Perhaps it would be helpful if we had a much closer look. Do you have a camera lens you can use for that? Check out post 3 from this RC thread which has a nice close-up pic for polyp comparison:

    http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053654
     
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  3. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    I don't have a true macro lens; so that is the best I can do. I do have a telephoto zoom lens, but the macro distance on it is like 6ft. I will give it a shot but don't think it will be any better. A good macro lens is on my list, but Bank of America told me last month to hold off on that right now :rolleyes:
     
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  4. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    I remember MUCH REEF from back in the day. Most impressive zoa polyp tanks I can remember! The hydroids he is referring too are specifically to symbiotic relationship with polyps. The one I have is different.
     
  5. BluewaterLa

    BluewaterLa LARC Boil Master Administrator LARC Supporter

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    WoW Just read through this information and did some digging into my books along with some pictures on the inter webs and it seems that you indeed have a type of hydroid.
    Pretty cool though that you have one and it seems just to stay to itself without bothering any corals or taking over the tank.
    I think it is nice to have the diverse life in a tank that can only come from Non sterile starts.
     
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  6. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    No risk, No reward!

    I actually started with two of them, but have not seen the other one in a few months now. This one actually went MIA for a bit too and could not find it the day I took my coral photos. Then he came out a few days later. Now that I have found him and Im noting an increase in fan worms and sponge encrustment, I have increased the phyto and oyster feast in my food content. Bracing for the next algae outbreak!
     
  7. CenlaReefer

    CenlaReefer Flasher Wrasse LARC Supporter

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    What types of algae are you dealing with?
     
  8. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    Nothing in plaque proportions at the moment, but I was referencing that I anticipate I will get an algae outbreak for changing my feeding regime to include more phyto and oyster feast. In general though, I have a little of everything. I am starting to get red cyano on the sand bed that I am actively siphoning, I have some green turf on the hard bottom of my tank (2 buried rocks), I have some new Florida native caluerpa that appeared in my display last week, halimeda looks like it is making a come back and I have two other green macros and a red macro that have started to cleanup again nicely. I did recently just finish this really nasty and slimy brown hair algae that got a really good hold in the tank. I cleaned out my fuge and got some fresh chaeto and it took a few weeks to get where I am today but the nasty crap alage is all but gone.

    Now, I am increasing the fines to help boost my micro-fauna population and increase color in my LPS corals as they have bleached over the last few months. My next step is to increase my fuge lighting to get more growth in the chaeto and less in the DT. My planned upgrade is to double/triple the LED's on the fuge and change the driver to a dimmable one so I can dial it in. I want macro algae in the DT, but not an uncontrolled takeover. My plan is to DIY an experiment to see if a dimmable light source in the fuge can be used to dial in a ratio of macro algae in the DT vs the fuge can actually be managed.

    I am reading up on a @BluewaterLa writeup regarding peroxide control for cyano, but I am really concerned about doing this in my tank. My setup is a little more...err...natural :D than most and I'm not sure all the side effects have been studied outside the context of SPS and LPS. I may siphon my substrate into a QT and do the peroxide treatment there instead of the DT. I have a lot of sponge, worms, a few tunicates and various macro algae that are uncommon in the hobby and I would hate to lose them as they may not be replaceable.
     
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  9. BluewaterLa

    BluewaterLa LARC Boil Master Administrator LARC Supporter

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    @clsanchez77
    My tank, especially my 90 was super diverse with several different sponges from ball to finger and multiple,colored. I had a healthy population of three kinds of brittle stars, amphipods, Copepoda, tunicates, chitons, spaghetti worms among other crazy critters I've had for years with my matured rock.
    Everything went well with zero losses EXCEPT for the Cyanobacteria, it was eradicated.

    I would think that possibly some of the macro algae in your display may take a little beating from the h2o2 during the 14 day treatment, though I am positive it will recover well.
     
  10. Lloyd Williams

    Lloyd Williams Fire Shrimp

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    Where you get your rock from?


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  11. Lloyd Williams

    Lloyd Williams Fire Shrimp

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    Is mature rock from trusted sources the best way to add diversity?


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  12. BluewaterLa

    BluewaterLa LARC Boil Master Administrator LARC Supporter

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    Yes though trusted is the key word.
    There are ways to get all the diversity with ocean rock, you would just need to properly cure it and know what pest to look for and how to remove them.

    If you have a fully QT-d tank free of pest I would suggest doing this the long way of curing and inspecting before adding to the tank.
    Personally I don't worry too much about pest as I've encountered just about everything this hobby has seen for pest over the years and don't get all freaked out anymore haha.

    If you want I could get a few price of dry rock from you or just use some of my smaller pieces and place them in my sump for a while to let all the critters set up shop or could put a stack in a dim corner of my display for a while and allow coralline and sponges to encrust plus critters.
     
  13. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    I used Gulf View for this tank:
    http://www.gulfliverock.com/

    There is also KP Aquatics:
    https://www.kpaquatics.com/product/aquacultured-live-rock/

    And Tampa Bay Saltwater:
    http://www.tampabaysaltwater.com/liverock/index.html

    Yes. But the real diversity comes from aquacultured rock.

    You can either start a new system with this rock and go fallow for a few months, or QT select pieces of rock before adding to an established system. They come with a high risk of pests but a reward diversity of animals that can be maintained if you choose too. But if your intent is to keep a sterile tank, this is not the best rock as you will be spending $$$ for a biodiversity that you wont maintain, will load your tank with nitrates and phosphates and then you will blame the rock :rolleyes:

    I wanted to add that I built up my base rock structure using the Caribea Life Rock, then topped it off with the Gulf View Rock.
     
  14. CenlaReefer

    CenlaReefer Flasher Wrasse LARC Supporter

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    Take Mike up on his fantastic offer! It won't be as biodiverse as aquacultured rock yet should help. It will also be much less of a headache.
     
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  15. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    Should market that as "Mike's Seed Package"
     
  16. BluewaterLa

    BluewaterLa LARC Boil Master Administrator LARC Supporter

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    Sprinkle a little blue's mojo on that rock make it tasty -wizard-
     
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  17. CenlaReefer

    CenlaReefer Flasher Wrasse LARC Supporter

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    Green or red turf algae can be extremely difficult to get rid of. Are you planning to keep it for a while? Is it possible to just keep it at bay long term?

    I am curious about Mike's technique for using hydrogen peroxide. I read somewhere else something about a 14 day procedure. What's all that about?

    I'm thinking about using a peroxide dip mix with salt water from the tank when bringing in new corals frags. I believe it may help to keep me from getting algae that I do not want to introduce into my system. If this is safe to use, what would be a good ratio for water to hydrogen peroxide? The only algae I really want to let flourish is in my homemade 5 gallon chaeto "reactor."
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  18. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    I actually plan to keep it and just manage it. My tank is approach is more natural, less work on my part. I only step in when I see algae encroaching on corals...or sometimes other algae.

    Read away: http://lareefclub.com/community/threads/experimenting-with-h2o2.46523/

    Run that by Mike. This would be in addition to standard coral dips? You would have to do this bath over 14 days to get the effect you want. It is also only effective on certain cyano and dino species...which are not even really algae. Peroxide is not a general algae cure all. It has to do with modern algae having a more protective cell membranes that are less vulnerable to peroxide. Cyano and dinos evolved before algae was its own thing and kind of straddle the grey area between bacterial, algae and protozoas.
     
  19. CenlaReefer

    CenlaReefer Flasher Wrasse LARC Supporter

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    Thanks Chris,

    This SW/h2o2 dip would after I did a Bayer pesticide dip. I guess that is a whole lot for frags to endure. What made me think of that was how Mike mentioned elsewhere using hydrogen peroxide for frags after removing any physical signs of bubble algae from them first. H202 has been elsewhere for bryopsis. I wonder if it can kill the algae spores.
     
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  20. BluewaterLa

    BluewaterLa LARC Boil Master Administrator LARC Supporter

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    H2O2 used in a strong solution or just straight 3% on things like the rock or plugs the coral is attached to is effective in ''helping'' get rid of the algae present.
    Some forms of algae are very resilient and hardy, this being said the peroxide will take care of a fair amount of the work needed in making sure that it doesn't become a huge problem in the tank.
    For example, I make sure I don't use plugs when I can cut off the coral. If I cannot remove the frag then I will use razor blades, bone cutters and scalpels or tweezers to remove as much algae present that I can and then give the areas a thorough wipe down with my reef towels to remove more.
    Then I rinse in some clean water over the sink to wash it down and then submerge the whole thing into a 50/50 mix for one to three minutes then rinse again and place into the tank.
    Some coral like zoa and paly tolerate abuse from strong peroxide solutions better and others like LPS May not, its a judgment call.
    If you can just dip the plug or the skeletal base into straight 3% and hold it there for a couple minutes then that's even better.

    What the peroxide does to things like green hair algae for example with well protected cells is it starts to oxidize the outer cell wall thus damaging the algae.
    most times you will see it turn a white color or very light color of what it used to look like.
    This treatment allows the grazers to mow down the rest and things like snails a chance to clean the area well before the algae have a chance to be healthy and spread all over the tank.
    This is why I use a extreme cleaning process combined with peroxide dip then let my hungry herbies take care of the rest.

    Spot treating rock that has hair algae or turf algae is a good way to help get rid of the offending algae. This MUST be done on the rock outside the tank so you can spot treat the rock with straight 3% peroxide and allow it to sit for several minutes then give the rock a good scrubbing, rinse and repeat and rinse again then return back to the tank.
    The peroxide will not harm the beneficial bacteria within the rock or the critters that slip away into the crevices, the best method is to use a spray bottle so that you are not soaking the rock with peroxide and mainly treating the algae.

    I hope this clears up some of your concerns and questions about my mad scientist methodology :D
    Maybe at the next meet we can get a volunteer to bring me several frags with different algae for me to remove and show the process that I have success with.
     

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