Preventitive measures for "redbugs"

Discussion in 'Small Polyp Stonies' started by oimate842005, Jul 3, 2006.

  1. oimate842005

    oimate842005 Gem Tang LARC Supporter

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    How can you take steps to avoid "redbugs" from entering your system? Are there any effective coral dips on the market that kill them?
     
  2. typo

    typo CrossHatch Trigger

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    fresh water dip all corals before placing them in your tank.

    iodine dips are good for preventing bacterial infections but little else.
     
  3. oimate842005

    oimate842005 Gem Tang LARC Supporter

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    just curious, how long do u place the coral in freshwater? and im assuming u add baking soda to raise the ph in the RO water
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I agree with Snausages01. :) And I don't recommend ever giving sps a freshwater dip. I think you would harm the coral before you would actually kill the bugs. :confused: (Feel free to fw dip those zoas though! Its a great way to get rid of those zoa eating nudis.)

    Interceptor (dog heart worm medication) will kill redbugs. Sps don't even seem to mind it.

    I received some maricultured frags that were infested with them. I got the Interceptor pills from my vet, crushed one up and dripped it into a salt bucket containing the new frags in tank water.

    The bugs are like ticks and can hold on like crazy, but after 5-10 mins they got irritated by the medication and many of them let go and tried to swim off.

    I let them soak for 3 hours. At one point I drained off some of the water and added new tank water and dripped in more interceptor. I didn't want the water getting to cool, plus the slimer frag had made a mess.

    I believe from my observations that the frags can take a LOT of interceptor. I dripped in nearly 10x the recommended amount and still saw PE on most peices! But really I think it is not the dosage so much as the duration that is important.

    Anyway, I put the frags directly into my main tank after the treatment, which was a rather risky move. But 4 months later and I have seen no signs of bugs so far.

    They don't spread as fast as most reef pests. I believe I read it took 15 days for 5 bugs to become 10. So keep that in mind if you decide to quaranteen.

    Wait... let me just give you the link to Borneman's page on this.

    http://www.ericborneman.com/Tegastes-content/Research.html

    Be sure and read about Dorton's original research on Borneman's site too.

    http://www.ericborneman.com/Tegastes-content/Dorton treatment.htm

    Keep us posted on what you decide to do. With how frequent these things are showing up in the hobbie lately, I'm definitly interested in any experience/observations you have.
     
  5. typo

    typo CrossHatch Trigger

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    i freshwater dipped every sps frag and colony that went into my tank. i actually lowered my sps loss after doing so. when i was working at ricks i used to freshwater dip every sps for atleast one minute before placing them into the tank. once again sps loss was lowered after beginning to do so. pistol shrimp always jumped out of the sps colonies but the crabs didnt seem to be bothered(not even the bad ones) and best of all it kills redbugs!

    interceptor works fine if you have the time and a dog.

    i dose the r.o. d.i. water with and alkalinity buffer. never paid attention to the actual ph.
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Interesting info Typo. :shock: You know how hard it is to get real data in this hobby. I've read on RC once or twice that a fw dip was not an effective means to clean a coral of redbugs, and I took it for granted that the posters had experience with the method.

    But I'm always happy to listen and learn from other's tests. So in your experience you have found a 1 minute fw dip is equal to the results of a 5 hour Interceptor dip? Yowser! :)

    *edit* Ok, I found where I read up on the fw and iodine dips. Quotes incoming!

    From Borneman's site:
    "-Freshwater dips

    Freshwater dips, commonly employed for ectoparasites in fish are inherently stressful to the corals, and although mostcopepods abandoned their host upon immersion, it was not particularly effective in killing the copepods for extended periods of time, and they were able to swim back onto the coral. The ability to osmoregualte in the copepods is probably higher than that of the corals, suggesting that corals will die before their parasite using this treatment.

    -Lugol's solution (10g potassium iodide, 5g iodine, 100ml H2O)

    Iodine is a powerful toxin and oxidant that can be used as a fixative for microbes, specifically ciliates. Two high dose treatments using Lugol's solution were used as a method of dipping corals to kill copepods. The dose levels were 5ml and 10ml in one liter of seawater. Within about 30 seconds at both dose levels, most copepods had bailed off the corals, and fallen to the bottom of the treatment vessel, rapidly dying and turning black. Several corals had copepods still attached to the coral, but all were dead. The dose level at 5m/L was tolerated by corals even highly colonized with copepods, although the effect on the coral was seriously stressful, resulting in partial bleaching, abnormally increased mucus production, and in a few cases, death. The majority of corals survived and recovered within a week and without any copepods present. The duration of treatment varied from 3-10 minutes, and examination of coral fragments under a dissecting scope was performed every minute to assess the status of the parasites. At 10ml/L, copepods died generally within 30 seconds, with some surviving up to 2 minutes. The effects on the corals were more pronounced and resulted in significant mortality, especially at durations from 2-5 minutes. This may be a good “dipâ€
     
  7. oimate842005

    oimate842005 Gem Tang LARC Supporter

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    thanks for all the good info...im stuck on what to do right now..i dipped the affected sps in a concentrated iodine solution for about 10 minutes, while taking a turkey baster and basting the coral to blast the bugs off...i also heard that freshwater dips are not good for sps, but i guess some have success and some dont....i think ill try the intercepter treatment soon if i see any more bugs on the acros
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    What I liked about the Interceptor was it did not seem to stress the corals at all. In some frags I saw PE while I was treating. And all the frags had polyp extension within minutes of being put into the main tank.

    What I didn't like, was that even after being crushed up it didn't dissolve all that easy in the water and I had to put it in a glass jar and shake it for like 30 minutes. And it would be nicer if it worked faster and killed off all the bugs in just a few minutes, instead of hours. :P

    Keep us posted!
     
  9. oimate842005

    oimate842005 Gem Tang LARC Supporter

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    heres an update:

    Last night I freshwater dipped the acro's and right away the bugs started jumping off the acro and dying...The bad news, all the affected Sps have browned overnight and dont seem to be doing too hot right now....I should have taken into consideration that the colony was weak to begin with and shouldnt have been stressed anymore, but oh well u learn the hard way....this is leaving such a bad taste in my mouth, i think ill stick to softies and Sps that start in "mille, monti, or pocili". All my other sps non-acro's are doing great
     
  10. ronniem

    ronniem Spiny Star Astraea

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    Hope things work out for you man. Sorry to hear about the bugs.
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Hey Oimate842005 =)

    I hope those corals pull through for you!

    Seriatopora hystrix (aka bird's nest) is another good hardy coral to add to your list of sps that are uneffected by red bugs. They grow very fast too!

    I sure know what its like to get frustrated over something in this hobby! But really, red bugs are one of the less troublesome reef pests around.

    Like ticks, they annoy and weaken their host. But the host coral is usually not in any immediate danger, which gives you plenty of time to act. They don't spread to plauge proportions over night like flatworms can. They are live bearers so you don't have to worry about eggs surviving after you treat for them. And since some very dedicated people found a safe-for-corals medication that targets only crustaceans, they are just not that big of a deal. :)

    Let us know how your acros do! Them browning out is a sign of stress, but I think thats not as bad as them bleaching out. I'd just give them some time to come around before handling them again.

    And thanks for sharing your results! I always appreciate the chance to learn something new. :P
     
  12. Travis

    Travis Toadstool Leather Coral

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    Hey Ian, good to hear you are making some progress.

    I think we should be able to do that trade in a month or so.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    l

    Do you have them in the tank ... or just one piece that you bought?

    I caught them in my tank pre-k. The tank had only been running for 6 months and I had a heavy infestation. I dosed inteceptor in the tank and it cleared them out. The bugs did weaken several corals. I had a 2 pt alk swing while doing the H20 changes to get rid of the intecepter and lost 2 colonies and 3 frags (if I remember right).

    If I come across the bugs again, I'll definitely go the inteceptor route but I would be more cautious about keeping everything else as stable as possible. If there is a 'next time' I'll rely on carbon and normal h20 changes to remove the drug. I'd only recommend that to people who don't have a heavy pod/crustacean population since die off could polute the water.

    People have been using inteceptor for a while now and several report using strong, strong concentrations without any impact on sps. I would not take the chance of just dipping with so much at stake .... just one reefers opinion. Keep us posted.
     
  14. oimate842005

    oimate842005 Gem Tang LARC Supporter

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    a few acro colonies and frags had signs of recession around the bases. and further inspecting them i found the amphipod like creatures on them. Im not 100% they are redbugs, but are probably a parasitic form of amphipod. If the colonies hang in there ill try interceptor.
     
  15. Travis

    Travis Toadstool Leather Coral

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    AAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I think I have the BUG@!@!@!@!!!!!!!@@!@@!!!!!!!@!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I noticed that my teal bush acro was losing tissue, so I pulled it out, on further inspection I found 4 or 6 of these little red dots.

    [​IMG]

    Is that a Red Bug?

    My Tort had lost tissue and the base, and so has my Purple bonsai and another acro.

    I havn't added anything in months other than a fish and some zoathids, but those were just added in the past few weeks and the bases have lost tissue along time ago.

    HELP!?
     
  16. Travis

    Travis Toadstool Leather Coral

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    Hermmmm........

    I did a Google Image search and got this

    [​IMG]

    Maybe i don't have the Red bugs, but what is it that has killed my Bush Acro?
     
  17. Travis

    Travis Toadstool Leather Coral

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    This too.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Travis

    Travis Toadstool Leather Coral

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    I placed the coral which I found the Red Bugs on in tap water and I didn't see any of them jump off. When I took the pieces out, the red dot was in the same place?

    Does this mean I don't have the Red Bugs?

    I looked at every SPS in the tank and have not found any little bugs running around on them.

    When I noticed the tissue loss on the other corals I fraged the tips and they all have servived but their bases are mostly gone, except for the base of the Purple Bonsai, it has stoped loseing tissue and is growing back.
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Travis, I have a cheap magnifying glass from walgreens. It's about three inches across. It is perfect for spotting the little #@$^%$#%j's. It's also very cool when you want to get an up close look at the acro tissue and the details of the polyps - just for kicks. I highly recommend getting one for your sake and those who you trade with. The bugs have more of a tan body with a red dot for a head. I had trouble seeing them (with the naked eye) on corals that were 10 or more inches from the glass.

    Friendly reminder for those who wish to buy or trade with me in the future ... I have not had the bugs in the brand new post k tank!

    BTW Travis, did you mean fresh RODI or tap. I'd avoid tap if I were you, even for a quick dip. I made the mistake of putting a colony under running tap to flush out a crab one time (without thinking :roll: ). The chlorine or something in the water caused the tissue to be discolored, almost bleaching it. Fortunately, that one was an extremely hardy coral and recovered in a couple weeks.

    oimate842005, good luck with the colonies.
     
  20. Travis

    Travis Toadstool Leather Coral

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    I put it in tap water, not RODI. The frag that i put in it was on it's way out, so i figured I would help it along while checking to see if it was infact infested with Redbugs.

    I am pretty sure what is in the picture is NOT a redbug.
     

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