Thoughts on liquid phosphate removers

Discussion in 'The Reef Tank' started by thaitopher, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. thaitopher Emerald Crab

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    I am considering dosing lanthanum chloride right into my skimmer intake, so that the particulates get skimmed out. Anyone see any potential issues with this? I am starting to get a bit of GHA on one of my rocks and want to control it bore fore it gets worse.


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  2. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    I'm not certain the particles will get "skimmed out". I have not used this product before but it works well - it results in a settled particle so Id be afraid of the particles settling in the skimmer chamber. Can you dose into a filter sock?

    Here was Randy's thoughts on the matter:
    Source: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/need-thoughts-lanthanum-chloride.238063/
    Reference: http://www.reefedition.com/phosphate-in-the-reef-aquarium-by-randy-holmes-farley/
     
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  3. Razzmatazz

    Razzmatazz Neon Goby Global Moderator LARC Supporter

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    Have you looked at using Red Sea NO3POX? I’ve used it successfully on my tank for phosphate removal to get rid of some hair algae. It’s easy to use and I haven’t noticed any negative effects on my tank.
     
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  4. gorillapimp28 Aptasia

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    @Razzmatazz - out of curiosity, how long did you use NO3POX before started seeing results?


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  5. Razzmatazz

    Razzmatazz Neon Goby Global Moderator LARC Supporter

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    It took about 2 weeks before I noticed the hair algae dying off. I’m not normally a big fan of Red Sea products but I believe this particular product works very well.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2018
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  6. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    While I have not personally used the Red Sea products, their reputation is stellar across many boards and for many years. I prefer this method for phosphate removal personally because it relies on organic methods, specifically bacteria, to convert the phosphate back into a biomass, that is then up-taken by your corals and contributes directly to their growth.

    Now if your tank was a FO with no corals or even a QT, I think your original method would be better.

    I personally use GFO, which takes phosphates completely out of the picture, with no metallic bound phosphate sediment to filter out. Both of these methods, do not take advantage of your existing phosphate to promote bacteria growth, that then feeds your corals. This is something I may experiment with the in the future, but right now, I don't have a lot of time for the tank, so I use GFO and coast on autopilot.
     
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  7. thaitopher Emerald Crab

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    I haven't. I will try it. I just bought the other product so I will try that first.


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  8. thaitopher Emerald Crab

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    I have considered buying a phosphate reactor and putting GFO in it, but GGOs aren't cheap.


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  9. thaitopher Emerald Crab

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    Thanks. I will research that.


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  10. thaitopher Emerald Crab

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    So here is my plan. After doin lots of research I believe I have found a safe way to dose lanthanum chloride. I will do it at night when all my fish are asleep to minimize any contact which it may have. I will also dose in my bank chamber next to my protein skimmer so that the precipitates get skimmed out. 99% of users of lanthanum chloride report no ill effects on their tank inhabitants so I should be fine. I will need to monitor calcium levels and pH since dosing lanthanum chloride reduces both. I just ordered a Hannah phosphate checker to give me really specific phosphate readings then I will record each reading on here.


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  11. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    No, it is not! BRS sells it in bulk at a good price, not liquid approaches are cheaper. They are not without consequences however. GFO, while more expensive, is pretty plug and play...does not have to be "dialed in" per se.

    The lanthanum does reduce calcium and pH, but also magnesium. It basically aids the chelating of phosphate with metal ions in the tank if I understand the process correctly. Again, I recommend this in QT and FO or even FOWLR where corals are not in play. For a reef tank, I don't honestly think its the best approach...in your shoes, I would go with @Razzmatazz approach, otherwise GFO.
     
  12. ItWasLuck

    ItWasLuck Emerald Crab

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    Melev's reef youtube has a video on using the brand phosphateRX, I've used both. Saw more results with the RX then with redsea nopox. Mainly because I think that the bacteria from carbon dosing will only consume so much phosphate to nitrate available. Also lanthanum is like a 2 times a year thing where as nopox is more of a daily dose. I think I watched several videos that dosed lanthanum into a filter sock. Either way I've dosed it directly into sump and into filter sock and the only thing I saw was a brief period where my brain coral shriveled up . . . ? weird but its fine now.

     
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  13. thaitopher Emerald Crab

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    I saw that video too a few days ago. I assume Phosphate Rx has lanthanum chloride in it. I am at least going to give it a shot and if i see my coral or fish starting to act weird I will invest in a phosphate reactor with GFO.


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  14. clsanchez77

    clsanchez77 Reefkeeping Extremist Global Moderator

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    Melev has been around many years and knows his stuff. While I never jumped on the demigod bandwagon at RC back in the day, he is one of the few I respected. Not many can take a hobby with great passion and turn it into a successful business...and then STILL enjoy the hobby.
     
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  15. Razzmatazz

    Razzmatazz Neon Goby Global Moderator LARC Supporter

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    I still run GFO in a reactor along with the NoPox, I just run the GFO for one week and off the next. The combination of the two has yielded good results for me. I have not heard of the Phosphate RX, I’ll have to do some research into that and maybe give it a try. From what I’ve read around on the net NoPox is the sorta the same as vodka dosing or vinegar dosing. I chose it because we carry it at work and it’s safe to use. I’ve been down that road of crashing my tank with dangerous chemicals and I don’t want to go back down it again.

    Please let us know how the lanthanum chloride works, I’m curious to hear the results.
     
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  16. 6lilfish

    6lilfish Ko-Ko Worm

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    When using Lanthanum you need to run 10 micron filter socks it binds to the filter sock not the skimmer. After a couple of hours remove and swap the filter sock. Phosphate RX is a great option. I have used both and both you need to run 10 micron socks. I found the phosphateRx to be a better option you can buy it and the socks on melvesreef.com Marc is a good friend of mine and have bought several of his acrylic items and other stuff. His page a YouTube channel is filled with a lot of great info


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  17. thaitopher Emerald Crab

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    I definitely will let you know. Will do daily updates to this thread once I start dosing plans to start tomorrow night when the package arrives.

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  18. thaitopher Emerald Crab

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    Does Petco or Petsmart sell Micron 10 filter socks or do I need to buy online? Does the chemical actually stay in the sock the whole time or does the sock just catch it after the precipitate is formed? Wouldnt Phosphate Rx pretty much be the same thing as lanthanum chloride?

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  19. 6lilfish

    6lilfish Ko-Ko Worm

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    I guess ,It would be the same. Had a real bad tank crash a few years ago from lanthanum. But have used phosphate RX with no ill effect. It is expensive but works. The sock catches it that why you need to change it out. Petco or pet smart does not sell them. [​IMG][​IMG]


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  20. thaitopher Emerald Crab

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    Thanks. I will actually be using a product called Agent Green produced by ATM, which I believe uses a very diluted version of lanthanum chloride.

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