Upgrade to a larger tank question

Users who are viewing this thread

jcieutat

Black Perc
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
319
Location
Ponchatoula, LA
I have had my IM Nuvo 20 up and running for a few months now and it is fine. I have quickly come to the realization that this tank isn't going to be large enough if I am going to dedicate the time and energy into this hobby again. With that being said, I am thinking of ordering the IM Nuvo 40. Should I transfer over the water, sand, rock, fish, and corals? Should I set up the new tank with new live sand and let it run a week or so and then add the rock, fish, and corals?

Can't wait to see how pissed my wife is going to be when I order another tank....

If anyone is interested in a basically new IM Nuvo 20 with a custom built black stand one I am done switching over please let me know.
 

Attachments

  • 20200328_083907.jpg
    20200328_083907.jpg
    160.5 KB · Views: 75
  • 20200328_083916.jpg
    20200328_083916.jpg
    194.3 KB · Views: 75

oimate842005

Reefers Anonymous
Global Moderator
LARC Supporter
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Messages
7,523
Location
Lake Charles, La
What I reccomend is to start with new sand and use a top layer of the old to seed with. You can use the existing sand if the sand bed isnt too deep, say less then 2". Anything over and you'll be disturbing the anoxic layer.

I'd start saving some water from old tank to use in the new one, roughly half or more to jump start that cycle in the new tank along with placing existing live rock in new tank with adding some base rock as well, take your time with it if you're not in a rush to sell your existing setup.

Go through the fun diatom phase and all that then start transferring corals and livestock slowly once your new tank is getting established. That's the joy of not being in a rush if you have the room and funds to hang on to the old tank for a another couple of weeks/months.
 

BluewaterLa

LARC Boil Master
Administrator
LARC Supporter
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
9,190
Location
Slidell
Order the new tank, Set it up, fill it mostly up and then transfer Rock / coral then fish using new sand if old sand is filthy.
OR
Test your sand bed in the 20 in a few spots to see if its loaded with organics, shouldnt be IF the system is only a couple months old.
Tank would not be established in a couple months and any move honestly is going to reset the clock and make corals mad so you will have a growth stall.
So buy the tank, set it up.
Drain your water down below half way, keep if you can IF not mix enough to cover the new tank ( make sure ALL parameters match ) mainly temp, alk, cal
Use old water to hold your corals, clean buckets reserved for fish.
After corals are out the tank, Drain the water down to just enough for fish to swim upright.
Remove live rock and place into new tank with new water.
Catch fish with plastic strainer or plastic container, better on slime coat. Place them into old clean water/ buckets
Remove sand and place into new tank around your rock, how much water is up to you at this point.
Add corals and fish.

A few different ways to get this done.
Your tank transfer can take just an hour or two or a half day depending on how comfortable you are with moving things.
I would be more worried with an older tank.
 

clsanchez77

Reefkeeping Extremist
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
9,086
Location
Metairie
I agree, if your only a few months, you are good to just move everything over. I would normally recommend throwing the sand away and starting over, but in your case its probably fine as well. You will have a small cycle as all the surfaces of the new setup (tank, piping, components, etc) won't have that biological coating and it makes a difference. I would recommend moving a few pieces of rock and some sand over ASAP with new water and get the tank and surfaces cycled before moving everything else. Skipping this step would be fine, but doing it would be smoother.

You should be pretty good.

I would be more worried with an older tank.

:)
 

jleblanc26

keep reefing on!
Administrator
LARC Supporter
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
4,178
Location
Galliano, la
I am currently in the process of preparing for a tank swap from the nuvo 40 AIO to a rimless PA 45 sump setup and this is what i did.

1 - Made new saltwater in 20g

2 - Swapped 10 gallons from 40 to 20 after a couple days of running.

3- Every week thereafter i would take 5 gallons from 40 and put it in 20, then filled 40 with new saltwater. Basically cloned the 40g.

4 - Ghost fed 20g to keep bacteria going.

5 - When the time comes. I will put all the rock in the 20 on top of a sheet of light diffuser and maybe ditch the sand. Thinking of going bare bottom in the 45.

6 - Clean and remove old Nuvo 40. Swap tanks.

77446983-C6FC-4F83-B51D-AFF0FD0A3E9B.jpeg
 

jcieutat

Black Perc
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
319
Location
Ponchatoula, LA
Update with a question:

My current tank has been up and running almost 5 months now. As previously stated, the 20 gallon tank was set up with 25 lbs. of Marco dry rock and 20 lbs. of live sand which I then transferred over to the 40 gallon tank. The tank was fishless cycled with Dr. Tim’s products. My equipment is as follows:

40 Gallon IM Nuvo Fusion Pro
Red Sea Reef LED90 (running 80% blue and 50% white)
2 MP10’s (synced running reef crest via Mobius app)
IM NUVOSkim DC Protein Skimmer
2 media baskets with filter floss, carbon, and Chemipure blue (on one side)
Tunze Osmolator nano
Hygger controller/titanium heater

I initially had a different light so when I transitioned to this light I did the recommended 1 month acclimation.

My livestock is as follows:
2 clowns, 1 lawnmower blenny, asst. snails and crabs, GSP, Torch coral, and a mushroom coral. I had some pulsing zenia that has pretty much all but died.

I have been doing a 5 gallon water change weekly. I have a RO/DI unit and the TDS is 0. I test my parameters every other week and they have been extremely stable. Temp swing is usually 78 to 79, salinity is 1.025 to 1.026, ammonia is 0, nitrates is 0, phosphate is 0, PH is 7.8, Calcium is 400 to 440, and KH is 9 to 10.

My question is I have zero coraline algae on my glass and rocks and my current “easy” corals are struggling instead of growing. I want to add a few more corals but am fearful they will struggle or die off. I had an outbreak of what I think was either dinoflagellates or cyanobacteria that strictly covered the entire back of the tank (didn't touch the rocks or sand). I removed all of it. I have started dosing Seachem Reef Fusion 1 and 2. I also have some pods and OceanMagik in route to me from Algae Barn.

Am I doing something wrong here that my tank is not progressing/maturing?
 

Attachments

  • 20200825_091236.jpg
    20200825_091236.jpg
    139.2 KB · Views: 63
Last edited:

oimate842005

Reefers Anonymous
Global Moderator
LARC Supporter
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Messages
7,523
Location
Lake Charles, La
So from the sounds of it, you did what a lot of us have mad mistakes on and started up a tank that is too sterile & filtration heavy and will take up to a year or more to fully mature. Try to find some true established live rock, that is cured and add to the tank. Maybe ask a reefer near you with a nice established tank to save you a bucket of water on their water change you can replace with in your tank. Doing things like this will speed up the bacterial process that was otherwise void when you start with base rock and the "live sand" in a bag that really isn't what I consider live like the sand you get out of a live rock vat at some LFS's.
 

jcieutat

Black Perc
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
319
Location
Ponchatoula, LA
So from the sounds of it, you did what a lot of us have mad mistakes on and started up a tank that is too sterile & filtration heavy and will take up to a year or more to fully mature. Try to find some true established live rock, that is cured and add to the tank. Maybe ask a reefer near you with a nice established tank to save you a bucket of water on their water change you can replace with in your tank. Doing things like this will speed up the bacterial process that was otherwise void when you start with base rock and the "live sand" in a bag that really isn't what I consider live like the sand you get out of a live rock vat at some LFS's.

Should I also put in another bottle of Dr. Tim's One and Only or is that just throwing money away? The only reason I went with dry rock this time was because of past tanks I had with aiptasia from live rock.
 

clsanchez77

Reefkeeping Extremist
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
9,086
Location
Metairie
Dr. Tim's will help, but it is not an instant fix. Tank maturity takes time and there is no substitute for that.

Moving over your sand and rock will help. The Dr. Tim's will help. But all your new glass surfaces, piping surfaces, sump surfaces, heater surfaces, etc need to build up their organic coatings and that is part of cycling a system. Your new corals will struggle a bit and coralline will be a few months away. I would NOT add anything to this system right now. Since you re-used the rock, I dont think you have risk of ammonia spike or anything like that.

But there is a difference between cycled and matured and right now you are in between the two. So feed your fish, keep the tank and equipment clean and in a few weeks you should start seeing your coralline specs on the glass.

Also, you mentioned Seachem Fusion. Are you testing drops in alkalinity? 9-10 seems high to me, but some people like that range. I would not add anymore until you see in your testing that the number is falling. If the number is falling, then you have calcification started again and things are moving in the right direction. Again, just need time, as in weeks to a few months, not days.

I think you have done everything right though.
 

clsanchez77

Reefkeeping Extremist
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
9,086
Location
Metairie
The only reason I went with dry rock this time was because of past tanks I had with aiptasia from live rock.

Im confused here. Did you use the same 25 lbs of Marco rocks from the 20 and move that to the 40, or did you start over with dry rock again? If you moved the rock over, that is no longer dry rock, that is now live rock. If you ordered new rock, then you started with dry rock. New dry rock is a problem as it means the tank needs to cycle. The old dry rock is not a problem as that is now Live Rock. There is no such thing as old dry rock unless you left it in a box or on a shelf. Does that make sense?
 

jcieutat

Black Perc
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
319
Location
Ponchatoula, LA
Im confused here. Did you use the same 25 lbs of Marco rocks from the 20 and move that to the 40, or did you start over with dry rock again? If you moved the rock over, that is no longer dry rock, that is now live rock. If you ordered new rock, then you started with dry rock. New dry rock is a problem as it means the tank needs to cycle. The old dry rock is not a problem as that is now Live Rock. There is no such thing as old dry rock unless you left it in a box or on a shelf. Does that make sense?

I initially set up the 20 gallon in early February with the dry rock and live sand and did the fishless cycle with Dr. Tims. In early to mid March, I transferred everything over to the 40 gallon because I realized the 20 gallon was too small. This 40 gallon setup has been up and running since then so it's been up and running for sometime now.
 

clsanchez77

Reefkeeping Extremist
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
9,086
Location
Metairie
I initially set up the 20 gallon in early February with the dry rock and live sand and did the fishless cycle with Dr. Tims. In early to mid March, I transferred everything over to the 40 gallon because I realized the 20 gallon was too small. This 40 gallon setup has been up and running since then so it's been up and running for sometime now.

I love your Avatar btw.

Then you are good. What used to be "dry rock" is now "live rock". Granted it's only been live for less than a year, so its not fully matured, but you are not starting from scratch. I think you are good. I would resume the Dr. Tim's as you can't go wrong with it. I would not add any livestock of any kind until you get the chemicals stable and you start seeing the calcification again. But I do think you are past the major risk of a crash.
 

jcieutat

Black Perc
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
319
Location
Ponchatoula, LA
When I spoke about using dry rock "this time" I was referring to this particular tank 20 gal and 40 gal). My previous two tanks (34 gal and 75 gal) over the years were seeded with live rock and I was constantly fighting unwanted pests but they obviously matured much quicker. This one is puzzling me because I have actually tried to be patient and just leave the tank alone for the most part. It still looks like I set it up yesterday and it has been up and running for almost 5 months.
 
Last edited:

clsanchez77

Reefkeeping Extremist
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
9,086
Location
Metairie
When I spoke about using dry rock "this time" I was referring to this particular tank 20 gal and 40 gal). My previous two tanks (34 gal and 75 gal) over the years were seeded with live rock and I was constantly fighting unwanted pests but they obviously matured much quicker. This one is puzzling me because I have actually tried to be patient and just leave the tank alone for the most part. It still looks like I set it up yesterday and it has been up and running for almost 5 months.

Tank maturity tanks many months. In fact, in the BRS/WWC videos, they were talking a year. Many people will argue this, but I don't care. The biological systems that run are tanks are very complex, its not just the nitrogen cycle. I still think you are doing everything right. Perhaps send us some closeup shots so we can look closer. Are you getting diatom (brown/dusty) or green hair algae?

Im maturing 3 tanks right now. I used KP Aquatics rock and the sponges in my Fluval filters were seeded in my DT for several weeks. Im on the second month. The 10g has one rock, is unlit and has little algae. The 20g has two rocks, is lit with 24" shop light and has a mix of diatom and green hair. The 40g has 60 lbs of rock in it and its the dirtiest lol. I feed each one about 1/4ml of mixed liquid food weekly. In another month, they will be ready for me to break down the 110 and move everything over. I need three months out of them to reset and recycle the 110 with all new equipment, then will put everything back. Its a delicate dance and just takes time.
 

mrmaytagg

Harlequin Tusk
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Messages
1,050
Location
Lafayette, LA
I would consider adding other strains of bacteria. Products like Dr Tim's that use other strains. I think that has become another issue. We have concentrated forms of one bacteria strain. If there ever becomes something there has can it compete that we have a prone. Diversity in bacteria is helpful like in the ocean. If you can get true live rock that will help because it will introduce multiple strains . I think that's why the old school tanks would strive.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

skydirt

Cleaner Shrimp
Joined
Sep 24, 2018
Messages
229
Location
slidell
To add to the different strains of bacteria process i have used microbacter 7 with great success. I have done a 400g and a 105g this year and they are doing well.
 

jcieutat

Black Perc
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
319
Location
Ponchatoula, LA
A month ago something started growing on the back wall. At first, I thought it was coraline algae. I didn't mess with it. Over the month, it covered the entire back wall. It never spread to the rocks or sand. It only stuck to the glass. The more it grew the more I realized it wasn't coraline. I ended up removing all of it. It looked like hair algae but it was more of a pinkish color, not green. Yesterday I added a bunch of Copepods (Poseiden's Feast) and started dosing Ocean Magik from Algae Barn. I have the Dr. Tim's One and Only and Waste Away on order.
 

Attachments

  • 20200820_155829.jpg
    20200820_155829.jpg
    77.7 KB · Views: 66
Top